End of An Era: 'The Walking Dead's Norman Reedus Reveals Exactly How He Wants Daryl Dixon's Story to End [Exclusive]

Jumping into why I get to talk to you guys. I just read that it's the fourth and final season of the show. How early on did you guys know it would be four seasons? How did this come about in terms of figuring out what the last season would be?

ZABEL: Well, the first two seasons were sort of conceived as a unit, the French seasons. So, Seasons 1 and 2. Then, when we were gonna move on and take the story somewhere else, and go for a brief stop in England, then go to Spain, we started talking about another two-season story that would be the next part of these guys' journey in Europe. As we were talking about that, it sort of coalesced with the idea that that might be a good way to culminate the European adventure of Daryl and Carol. So, it's well-formed in that we've got a great two-season story we did in France. We're gonna do another two-season story in Spain, which is kind of super-sized, even bigger than the first two, because we're doing 15 episodes altogether in Spain, having done 12 in France. It seemed like that four-season arc was gonna be great, and a good place to leave them before the universe figures out what the next moves might be for these characters.

You mentioned the first two seasons were 12 episodes, and I guess Seasons 3 and 4 are gonna be 15. How early did you know it was going to be 15? Was it story-related that that's why you did 15, or did AMC say, "We'd like 15?"

ZABEL: Honestly, we always wanted to do more. We always felt like we had story enough to do more, and that's part of the navigation of all the business parts of making a show — how many they need, how many they want, how many we can afford to make. So, in the first two seasons, it was agreed six and six, and in Season 3, we continued to push for more, and then we ended up being able to make seven in Season 3. Then, they agreed for Season 4 to have us make eight. So, it was an ongoing conversation from the beginning. Honestly, we always felt like six is a hard number to cram as much story as we wanted to tell into.

One of the things that I commend you on in the first two seasons is that there are no wasted scenes. I've watched all of The Walking Dead, and they're sometimes not as tight as your first two seasons. It was very good, and I really liked the fact that it was in Europe. That location adds a lot.

Is This the End for Carol and Daryl?

"I always wanted it to end that way, and I feel like we've done that with this show."

For the two of you, I don't know if this is gonna be the very end for you. I don't know what the future holds, but there is the possibility that this upcoming season could be the last. What is it like going in knowing that this might be the end? Or maybe you know more than I do.

REEDUS: I've always put so much work into the show and so much thought and care into the show — not just my character, but as a show. I've always fought for certain things, a certain quality of things. I was there in the beginning when that group of people made it lightning in a bottle, and then I went through it through the seasons, and I watched how it changed, and I watched new characters come on, and old characters that were part of that beginning to get killed off. So, I've always wanted to find that quality. I feel like the show that we've made in Europe, both in France and Spain, feels like that original show. I started that way, and I always wanted it to end that way, and I feel like we've done that with this show. I have a satisfied feeling.

So, for it to go the way that it's going, I'm not mad at it. To get that as a young actor and have done other things and not feel that, but to experience that as an actor with a team, like a true family team, I always wanted to find that again. That's what I've always been looking for. I feel like we've come full circle, just me personally. As a work ethic, as going to work every day, I feel like I found that again. So, I'm satisfied with that portion of it. The way that it ends, it ends in a way...

You already know how Season 4 ends?

REEDUS: We're filming now.

ZABEL: We've started filming Season 4, and talked about how it ends.

MCBRIDE: Wait a minute. What? How does it end? What do you know?

REEDUS: We know the same thing. We always know the same thing. We're on the same emails, sweetheart. But it's satisfying. It's hard to explain, but it's satisfying.

I have a follow-up in a second, but I want to hear from you first, Melissa, if you don't mind, in terms of what I just asked.

MCBRIDE: Well, there's still a way to go. Really, I just want to experience too much. I don't want to arrive before I get there. That's just one of these things. I try to live like that because I say that to myself a lot, because I usually end up arriving long before I get there, or I just don't go. You know what I mean? So I just really want to be in the moment from here on to the end, just really savoring these moments with this great group of people, being grateful for the people that I have worked with, these very talented artists, creative people, the writers, and I just want to experience that and not get too far ahead of myself thinking about whatever the end means, or a completion.

REEDUS: That is true. You don't know what it's going to feel like yet.

MCBRIDE: No. There's too much work to do.

You guys have inhabited these characters and these roles for a very long time. It's so rare to play characters like this on television for so long, and I'm just curious, for both of you, have you always envisioned an ending and where you want each of your characters to be, and how much are you discussing with the guys what those final scenes might be if this is the end of you playing these characters?

REEDUS: I've always said the same thing in interviews since day one. They say, "How do you want your character to end?" And I've always said, "He walks up a mountain, a little dog follows him up over the mountain, and he gets smaller, he disappears, and people go, 'Whatever happened to that guy?'" That's how I always wanted it to end. We talk about it all the time.

ZABEL: We've talked about it a lot. I'll just say, from my perspective, we're trying to come up with the best ending for the show that is called Daryl Dixon, the four years that we will have done of that show. Again, this goes more into Scott's territory, but I don't think of it as the end of the characters necessarily, or the end of their stories. I think of it as closure on this particular period of time that we've told the story of these two characters, getting over there and traveling through Europe, and coming out with a resolution that's surprising and satisfying, but also kind of has an open end to it.

Scott Gimple Says “Experimental” Projects Are in the Works for The Walking Dead

Greg Nicotero also shares how he has continued to shape the franchise since day one.

I'm going to ask you a question as one of the stewards of The Walking Dead. What is the status of what's going on in terms of the development of what AMC is looking for? What are you trying to do? There are still so many people who watch. I'm sure AMC doesn't want to just be like, "Okay, we're done."

GIMPLE: You have plans, and then you have experiments. You sort of tend to them both. That's what we're doing right now. We have some directions that we're moving in, but there are a lot of different pieces to it. Then there's some really experimental stuff we're doing as well. There's sort of like the classic stuff, and then these smaller kinds of weirder experiments that we're in. But Robert Kirkman created The Walking Dead as the zombie movie that never ends, and we want to fulfill that one way or another. The thing about Robert Kirkman's vision of it isn't about the walkers, obviously. It's about the characters. So, that means, one way or another, I'd like to keep telling stories with these characters.

REEDUS: [Singing] "We're gonna getcha, getcha, getcha, getcha one day..."

I know you can't say anything…

GIMPLE: I definitely won't.

Exactly. I'll stop.

GIMPLE: You know what? I think Melissa has already said it, and I think the audience is there too. Let's not arrive before we get there.

Again, I've been watching the show for a very long time. Greg, you're very involved in this. What exactly are you working on at all times on The Walking Dead? How does it work for you between directing and creatures? Talk a little bit about what your involvement is now. What still excites you about the series?

NICOTERO: It's all-encompassing. Going from the original show and then coming over to Daryl Dixon, my initial responsibility was to provide some sort of cohesiveness and also to sort of educate David to the rules of the world and be a sounding board for him. On the original show, when the directors would come in, I was the person that they would come about, like, "Oh, how does this work and how does that work?" I feel like, having been as involved for such a long period of time, it's kind of like the way Norman and Melissa treat their characters. They know their characters because they've lived with them for a long time. I know what the show is about. I understand the DNA of the show because I was there from day one, literally a year before the show actually started production. So I love the idea that I can sort of champion what I believe is the DNA of the show and collaborate with David and Scott. We've had a great time.

ZABEL: That's been great for me coming in as relatively, certainly, among this group, I'm the new guy. It's been great from the beginning. First of all, to have Greg and be able to bounce things off of him and try to make sure that we can continue to do new things and different things in this world, even after it's been around so long, but also with Norman and Melissa, of course. It's a great benefit to have two great actors playing these two iconic characters and try to build a world around that. It gives you a great head start if you're someone like me who's coming in who has things that I'm interested in doing and stories I'm interested in telling, but I'm new to this particular world. I haven't been in The Walking Dead universe before. Now, I feel like an old hand a little bit because I've been here for three years, but at the beginning, that was really valuable.

It gave the show a certain energy, I think, because there was a combination of loyalty to the legacy and faithfulness to the inheritance of the show and the characters. But there was also some new energy that I brought, that Dan Percival, who's one of our directors, brought, that some of the other writers brought. So there was a great meeting of old and new, which, in a way, not to go crazy, but that's sort of the theme of the show, too. Going to Europe, we're constantly telling stories that exist in the space of the old meeting new: Old World, New World, the traditional ways, and the ways of the apocalypse. So, I think there's been kind of a simpatico to the whole thing that's really been great.

The Crew Reflects on The Walking Dead's Greatest Moments

They also discuss the impact on the history of television.

For the two of you, in all the seasons, including Daryl Dixon, which shot or sequence, when you think back, was the back-breaker, both good and bad. You've done tons of action. You've done all sorts of stuff on this show. You've been put through the wringer. When you think back, was there one that was especially challenging?

REEDUS: Ooh, the Glenn death I didn't love. You know what I mean? I didn't want to see him go. And it was also the other aspects of that I didn't love. Good for me personally? God, there are so many good ones. I can say maybe one or two bad ones, or I can say, like, 100 good ones. I think Rick and I in the hole. I loved that scene because we worked on it so much together. Having a partner, working, that's rare to find that long. Merle, that one you directed, [Greg], with Merle, that was a good one. Many with Melissa. A ton of good scenes with Melissa. I like "Cherokee Rose" a lot. There's a bunch. There's a lot.

Melissa, was there one that was really tough for you?

MCBRIDE: I think Sophia coming out of the barn was really tough. Partly because Madison [Lintz] was in school, so I was doing it to a tennis ball on a stick. That was a little challenging. [Laughs] But even when she was there, it was still very challenging. It was highly emotional. And then "The Grove" was such a wonderful turning point for Carol's arc and such a great script, Scott Gimple. Did Angela [Kang] work on that, as well?

GIMPLE: I would say that's just me, but I love Angela.

MCBRIDE: Was that just you? I couldn't remember. Beautiful script.

GIMPLE: But Angela did an episode called "Still" that was pretty damn amazing.

MCBRIDE: Yeah, she did quite a few really, really good scripts too. Those are the first that come to mind. Again, it's just like Norman said, there's so many, if I could just sit here and think for a minute. But those are the first two that are just immediate.

REEDUS: We were talking about this a minute ago between rooms. This show, like, we've beaten M*A*S*H. To have a show that has this many people interested in it that goes this long, it's so rare.

It is basically impossible. This show won the lottery that people never win.

REEDUS: Yeah, it's wild.

MCBRIDE: It's been amazing just going through the years and coming onto this new spin-off and coming across fans in other places, in other countries. It's multi-generational. The parents are watching it. Now the children of those parents are watching it, but they were children when they started watching it. To be a part of that from the very beginning is, or at any time, like a lot of the people coming in from Spain, they know what they're getting into. It's planted into pop culture. It's planted into the history of television, and coming from television into new media and streaming. If television falls away, it was a part of something big and across generations and across platforms.

GIMPLE: I was in Spain visiting set, and Andy Lincoln hopped down from the United Kingdom, and we were going to dinner in this little town, Santiago de Compostela. Andy's just getting mobbed by all these people, and none of them can speak English, and yet they're looking at him like he's a family member. It really was a moment of just... The reach of the show was really, really incredible.

Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like for the two of you to walk through an airport. There are fans all around the world. It must be crazy.

Season 3 Invokes Spaghetti Westerns and "John Ford-Like" Storytelling

Season 4 takes a tonal shift and "evolves a bit."

Season 3 is about to come out. What do you want to tell people about Season 3?

REEDUS: It's fucking great. It's fucking great. It's a Western. It's fucking great.

ZABEL: It's influenced by all these Spanish things, but one of the things that Jason [Richman] and I did, who writes and sort of designs the show with the stories with me, is we sat down and watched a lot of Sergio Leone movies that were shot in Spain, because we were just interested in, like, "Okay, that's a cool kind of storytelling, and it's made in the place that we're going to be making our show." So, that influenced a lot of the story all the way through.

Episode 5 is straight up like, "Let's do a Sergio Leone story." But even the elements of the story earlier on, they're strangers in a strange town, there are lots of echoes of Man with No Name kind of movies, the Clint Eastwood movies. They're strangers in this strange sort of frontier town who get sucked into the drama that's going on there that parallels their own needs and goals. So, there were lots of themes and templates that we were inspired by that came from Westerns in general and specifically Spaghetti Westerns.

GIMPLE: And you know what? You were talking about how movies are so important to you. Cinema is served this season. There is a character who argues for cinema essentially.

ZABEL: Yeah, he wanted to be a filmmaker, and he's preserved this little theater, so there's actually a lot of talk about that.

Are Seasons 3 and 4 both like a Western, or is Season 4 a different sort of tone and genre?

ZABEL: Season 4 has a slight difference in tone. They're of a piece, but Season 3 is more focused on sort of really emulating some of those aspects of Westerns and Spaghetti Westerns. It includes a rescue mission that's very John Ford-like. Season 4, it's of a piece with that, but it evolves a bit. We just started making Season 4, so that's also evolving still, but I think it's a little bit different.

I could ask you a million other questions, but I'm out of time. I'm just going to say thank you for coming in. Thank you for so many years of entertainment. I'm sad that it's coming to a close, but I'm looking forward to watching.